I present myself to answer your questions, to trivialize the momentous, and to complicate the obvious.

Thanks go to GB for seeing this game through to a far gentler landing than I would ever have managed on my own. The voice of reason and experience, you should all go and thank him for his writing and his wisdom; they are a significant part of why any of us had a good time.

Thank you for running the game! I know this game was long in the making from concept, planning, previews and finally execution. It's been a while we've a game to see this long of a 'baking' process. Much appreciation for your hard work! Game headlining is not easy work!

Just some small questions here!

If you're willing to share, what were some of the adjustments that needed to be made that took a turn from planning to execution? Either in plot or mechanics? I did notice some of the event TNs were high from the start but were changed as an example.

Which event was your favourite from a flavour standpoint?

Which NPC did you find the most enjoyable to play? And why was it Kitsu Shintaro? (...if that was you, my apologies!)

There were two meaty changes in terms of plot. The first was that our big show-stopper event (the granary fire) had to go for both social and mechanical reasons. It just wasn't tenable with the population we had. It was going to lead to more exposition about how the houses were starting to use the Winds as justification for conflict, so there was an investigation element tagged onto the end that had to go as well.

The other was Hantei Ningi, who was originally meant to be banished at the end of the Telephone Line scene and never heard from again. Folks were signalling through their characters' reasoning and through repeated divination and commune rolls that they wanted more spiritual elements in the game, so we rolled with it and he became a sub-plot rather than an incident.

Shosuro Ryusei, the Shosuro Daimyo, had a chance to get involved in the game much more seriously based on what happened in the Tatsuya Adventure, but folks managed to avoid meeting the governor of Ryoko Owari, who would have been Ryusei in disguise, and dodged their tail, so less outside meddling than there might otherwise have been.

In terms of mechanics, no one chose to use either the Grass (Scorpion advantage) or the Feuding rules. Both of those can easily be deployed in future games, however.

I think Devil Chase is my favorite in terms of flavor and symbolism, but honestly I loved the cooperative kemari game and the idea of choosing the self vs. the team, with inspiration as reward. If there's a mechanic that I want to see used over again, it's that cooperative one.

I did love Shintaro--playing someone completely genuine and honestly excited about finding stuff out is a nice change for me, and Gorobei and Ryunosuke were also interesting for different reasons, but I think I enjoyed Kaiu Masahiko the most. He was an operator, friendly, but overly paranoid, and he cost the Crab a little less than he helped them, which is sort of what an NPC boss is all about. The only NPC I felt like I just didn't really have was Tatsuya.

So before we return Cearn to his padded room in the GM Wing of Fallenash (we're still holding out hope for a cure for whatever madness convinces people to run games is a good idea), I want to extended my congratulations, my thanks, and my questions.

First, congratulations! Seriously, you made it. You spent kami knows how many hours working up your vision, and you brought it to life. You hit every dayflip on time (save when the whole website thought it'd be funny to choke and die day 1, boy have GB and I had that happen before), you kept your cool mostly intact, and you made it all the way to the end without major scandal. You've brought a small piece of joy into an ever darkening world, and you deserve every bit of praise for that.

Leading into, thank you! I really had fun, and I hope that I was able to give you a small bit of fun as well.

So, I've got lots of questions, for example, you promised to reveal "the murder investigation that the entire Scorpion delegation missed" in the post game, but I want to start with the Trading Game.

We've come along way as a community from the days of AEG's, "Uh, yeah, you've got some stuff. Here's a list of stuff with no values attached." (What do I do with this barrel of glass beads?) What I really want to know is how you came up with the figures you did (I really don't think you picked them randomly), what the initial figures were, and the initial goodies baskets, and just really you're whole deal with it and how it functioned. I ask, because I am a thief, and I will definitely be taking what you say and building upon it the next time I get it into my head to run a court game (I've already got an improvement in mind)

More questions likely to come later, so don't tigthen your straps on your jacket just yet

Thank you for running the game! I felt fortunate to be a Crane, as Minehime was wonderful.

Were there a few investigations that didn't end up finishing? There was the thing with the fire and the missing person. There was the attack on Tatsuya and his son. Admittedly my activity level dropped off a bit, so I might have missed something. Can you tell me what ended up happening with these?

The basis for the resource game was Kyuden Agasha's rice trading. I looked at that and remembered that it made sense and gave people something to haggle over, but I also remembered it being a little tense at times. Part of that was that a lot of us were younger and less mature, but the other part was that it was just one resource, so people who did not have rice had to make concessions without economic leverage, unless they had leverage from other means.

So I asked myself who was known for what (I did not play the card game, so I did not know that the Phoenix have silver mines.), and then asked myself who was known for working together with whom, recognized that that almost certainly should have an economic underpinning, and so tried to make those deficits and surpluses correlate. Generally, if a clan was not resource-diverse, it had a larger surplus in one or two resources (Phoenix with Paper and Lumber, Scorpion with Dyes, Lion with Copper) to compensate for that. And then I balanced things so that there was a small net surplus in everything but Iron. Lion had a little bit of a hurdle in arms and iron because they were replacing materiel they had lost in Lady Matsu's oops the previous summer. The gaijin goods were just for fun: everyone who traded with the Cornejos or Thrane would have a stockpile, and nobody would want them (except the Crab, for reasons to do with one of their Clan Goals).

Stating Positions
Crab: -20 rice. +13 Arms, 0 Other Food, -3 Copper, -1 Dyes, +5 Gaijin Goods, 0 Gold, -15 Jade, 10 Iron, -10 Lumber, -3 Naval Supplies, -3 Paper, +15 Sake, 0 Silver, +7 Stone, +15 Tea. 3 Engineering Services, 4 Custom Armors

Crane: +28 Rice, -5 Arms, +6 fish, -3 Copper, -3 Dyes, +5 Gaijin Goods, -4 Gold, -3 Jade, +5 Iron, +3 Lumber, -3 Naval Supplies, -4 Paper, +5 Sake, +10 Silver, +5 Stone, +10 Tea 10 Art Services

Dragon: -13 Rice, +5 Arms, -7 vegetables, +3 Red Meat (this was a lulz thing), +5 Copper, -4 Dyes, 0 Gaijin Goods, +13 Gold, +8 Jade, +5 Iron, -4 Lumber, 0 Naval Supplies, -3 Paper, -4 Sake, 4 Silver, 12 Stone, -10 Tea, 4 Spiritual Services

Lion: +25 Rice, -15 Arms, 0 Other Food, +15 Copper, -2 Dyes, 2 Gaijin Goods, -2 Gold, 0 Jade, -13 Iron, -10 Lumber, 0 Naval Supplies, -4 Paper, -6 Sake, -2 Silver, -5 Stone, -10 Tea, 4 Art Services, the Pottery Tech.

Phoenix: +2 Rice, -2 Arms, 0 Other Food, -5 Copper, -4 Dyes, +2 Gaijin Goods, -2 Gold, 4 Jade, -4 Iron, +20 Lumber, +3 Naval Supplies, +20 Paper, -5 Sake, -5 Silver, -3 Stone, -6 Tea, 4 Spiritual Services

Scorpion: +3 Rice, +5 Arms, 0 Other Food, -3 Copper, +20 Dyes, +1 Gaijin Goods, +2 Gold, +4 Jade, -5 Iron, +10 Lumber, -1 Naval Supplies, -6 Paper, +2 Sake, -3 Silver, 0 Stone, -4 Tea. 3 Art services, 2 information Services, 1 Med Tech.

Badger: -3 Rice, +2 Arms, -2 Fish, +5 Copper, -5 Dyes, 0 Gaijin Goods, 0 Gold, -2 Jade, +4 Iron, -3 Lumber, 0 Naval Supplies, -2 Paper, +1 Sake, 0 Silver, 0 Stone, -3 Tea

Boar: +2 Rice, +5 Arms, -2 Fish, 3 Copper, -2 Dyes, 0 Gaijin Goods, 0 Gold, +10 Jade, +8 Iron, -3 Lumber, 0 Naval Supplies, -2 Paper, -5 Sake, 0 Silver, -2 Stone, +2 Tea

Centipede: +2 Rice, +1 Arms, -4 Vegetables, -2 Copper, -2 Dyes, 1 Gaijin Good, -4 Gold, 1 Jade, -2 Iron, -2 Lumber, 0 Naval Supplies, -2 Paper, -1 Sake, -2 Silver, +1 Stone, -1 Tea, 2 Amaterasu Services

Fox: +2 Rice, -2 Arms, +3 Vegetables, -2 Copper, +2 Dyes, 0 Gaijin Goods, 0 Gold, -2 Jade, -3 Iron, +2 Lumber, 0 Naval Supplies, +5 Paper, -1 Sake, 0 Silver, -3 Stone, -1 Tea

Mantis: -7 Rice, -5 Arms, +6 Fish, -2 Copper, +2 Dyes, +20 Gaijin Goods, +2 Gold, -2 Jade, -3 Iron, -5 Lumber, +5 Naval Supplies, +2 Paper, -5 Sake, -2 Silver, -5 Stone, +6 Tea,

Sparrow: -8 Rice, 0 Arms, +10 Vegetables, -2 Copper, 0 Dyes, 0 Gaijin Goods, 0 Gold, 0 Jade, -1 Iron, -2 Lumber, 0 Naval Supplies, +3 Paper, +4 Sake, 0 Silver, -2 Stone, -2 Tea

Tortoise: -7 Rice, -3 Arms, +4 Fish, 0 Copper, +2 Dyes, +10 Gaijin Goods, -4 Gold, -1 Jade, -2 Iron, +4 Lumber, +2 Naval Supplies, -4 Paper, +3 Sake, +2 Silver, -2 Stone, +5 Tea, 2 Information Services, Gaijin Contact (Thrane, Merenae).

Daidoji Ryu wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 6:13 pm

Thank you for running the game! I felt fortunate to be a Crane, as Minehime was wonderful.

Were there a few investigations that didn't end up finishing? There was the thing with the fire and the missing person. There was the attack on Tatsuya and his son. Admittedly my activity level dropped off a bit, so I might have missed something. Can you tell me what ended up happening with these?

That fire and missing person was related to the Scorpion sup-plot that never really was uncovered. You guys were close to figuring that out, but you decided that the one thing that could have gotten you meaningful clues: following this guy's route home and looking for evidence of trouble, was not feasible. Which is reasonable if you're thinking about it as searching the whole town, which is what I think was going on there.

The investigation into the attack on Tatsuya did turn up almost the whole conspiracy: Ikoma Ryota's karo did hire ronin through a go-between to make the succession crisis less muddy by eliminating Tatsuya. What was not discovered was that Ikoma Ryota was possessed by Hantei Ningi when he ordered the karo to do that. Ikoma Ryota had no memory of issuing the order; the karo was too honorable to rat on his lord, and it wasn't in Kakita Hajime's interest to find Ryota guilty of something he could not completely prove, particularly when it would have destabilized the court.

Cearnach wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 6:20 pm

*snip*

Ah man, Kuichi is going to haunt me. By that math, there was only a surplus of 6 rice in the game. And we ended up siphoning off 15 for our clan goal. So an empire-wide shortfall of 9.


Still, really amazing stuff. I had been wondering "Maybe there's some sort of system out there he's using to determine these"? It wouldn't be the weirdest game system, but nope, built entirely by hand and forethought. Dang, impressive

This game was such a joy! You all did an amazing job.

One question for me is that we worked hard to save Ikoma Ryota from his depression. And there was some sense that the 'how' mattered. Did it impact anything he did later?

I saw him stand up and speak to Shiba-ue before she cut off court, but if his goal was to stop her, he didn't.

Or was there stuff that would have happened if we didn't save him from his depression?

If some of this is secret plot, it's fine to say 'you may or may not find out in the future'. That's fun, too.

Because the emphasis of the 'How' was Bushido, he got more in line with Akodo Sanae's program, which naturally tended to neutralize him as an independent character. The other through-thread was that he was needed to fix the Empire, the excess desire to do which was part of what led Ningi to possess him and try to "solve" Tatsuya.

Thank you for the game! It was evident that a lot of thought and work had gone into this, and it was such a pleasure to see a game that had undergone so much planning and had prepared so much ahead of time! <3

Now you've earned a lot of rest and wine to recover for the next round.

I enjoyed the trading and the details you paid attention to there with the different goods and services (so it wasn't just "koku"). I also liked the court system, though as noted elsewhere it needs some more fine-tuning for the future. Also enjoyed the houses and many of the NPCs.

The biggest enjoyment for me was that it felt like everyone had an equal chance to participate and matter in this game. It didn't feel like any one player was being favored over others when it came to plot or importance, and that mattered a lot to me. <3

In hindsight, what would you have done differently now that the game is over?

I’m in between flights today, but wanted to pop in and say thank you so much for the game.

Had a wonderful time rolling around in the sandbox. Thanks for the time with Noriko and all the preparation!

Kitsu Sayomi wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 7:28 pm

In hindsight, what would you have done differently now that the game is over?

I do think I would have shaved 2 days off of the end by moving the Bowman's Wager earlier. The game was too long. I also should have made the Matsu Reiko thing happen the day after I signaled it. I chose to honor an unnecessary commitment to travel time and lost contact with Doji Arai in the meantime. That was a mistake.

Other things, like pitching the TNs lower from the start, probably would have kept more people in the game. It's true that I do not have the math chops for that. I should also have not tried to adhere to what I thought the society and culture would reward or respond to choices in Events. Indeed, any time that the rewards had a cultural element that diverged from player expectations about how heroism works or how rewards should be calculated, I got an earful. Some folks want the game to be played differently than I do. That's an adjustment in my mentality that just needs to happen.

If I could think of a way to punctuate the roleplay without Events, I would do it. But without something mechanical and roll-based like Events are, I think we'd get down to about 7 players very quickly, so that's kind of out.

There's more, of course. 3rd gm? Probably, but I got a lot of very hard nos. I will say that the community in general was much nicer than I anticipated. There's the other side of that coin, though, as I am sure everyone is aware.

First of all-

THANK YOU!

This game was a lot of fun, and the sheer amount of work you put in beggars my imagination- just what I can *see* is a pile, and that's not counting all the stuff we didn't find or missed out on, or that didn't come up organically.

1. Biggest curveball the game threw you?

2. Biggest curveball we threw you?

3. Favorite moment you had a direct hand in?

4. Favorite moment you didn't?

Cearnach wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 8:15 pm

Other things, like pitching the TNs lower from the start, probably would have kept more people in the game. It's true that I do not have the math chops for that. I should also have not tried to adhere to what I thought the society and culture would reward or respond to choices in Events. Indeed, any time that the rewards had a cultural element that diverged from player expectations about how heroism works or how rewards should be calculated, I got an earful. Some folks want the game to be played differently than I do. That's an adjustment in my mentality that just needs to happen.

If I could think of a way to punctuate the roleplay without Events, I would do it. But without something mechanical and roll-based like Events are, I think we'd get down to about 7 players very quickly, so that's kind of out.

My personal take is that there're different kinds of proportionality at work with in-game rewards. Expectations about what the setting/culture would value are one important part of the equation, but so is the game-design aspect of "what behaviors do I hope the players will choose here (even as simple as 'do the event' or 'don't do it')? How can I structure actions and rewards to encourage the behaviors or results I'm hoping for? How do I make the payoff feel proportional to the risk/effort/difficulty/mental load players will need to invest to participate?" Personally, I find this helpfully applies to everything from a full-fledged event for the whole cast, to one step in a mystery investigation. That doesn't necessarily mean adjusting or moving away from the values of the setting, it just means it helps to think like a Doylist as well as a Watsonian.

Anyway, thanks a million for a game where I could play a ridiculous artisan Crane and nerd out about niche things while actually fitting into the game premise (love a court game!). The care invested into fleshing out the era really shone. The trading mini-puzzle was indeed a lot more flavorful than just rice or vague "make up what stuff you have," and the NPCs were delightful (even though one sometimes felt bad having to bug them for 'business' scenes quite so often). I badly regret not having the energy/finding an excuse to meet Batsuda and Tsuruyo in particular.

It's getting to the end of a teaching day so I don't remember if I had specific questions! Maybe they'll float up later when my brain is less stretched.

Thanks for the game, I had a lot of fun with it and managed to make it to the end despite RL. I hope you enjoyed it too, GMing always throws unexpected curveballs

Thoughts/questions

I loved the House creation, it gave me a lot to work with. I was hoping we might see more aspects of them incorporated into the game, although I appreciate it's their first time out!

Was the assassination attemp on D10 always going to be Tatsuya, or was it targeting the Wind with most influence at that point?

I have to admit, it was not clear to me that the game would end without a Wind chosen. I was expecting the game would close with a Wind selected and hence lots of unhappy samurai, leading to a highly factionalised and conflict rich environment as different groups tried to get rid of the chosen Wind. So it felt a bit odd to finish without some sort of resolution to the metagame (even if it was just: Wind x wins this round, supporters gain y, tune in next game where the Wind will start with some momentum/bonus).

Oh yeah, what about that paper Tooru stole when he found the Empress?

Shiba Ryusei wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 8:39 pm

1. Biggest curveball the game threw you?

2. Biggest curveball we threw you?

3. Favorite moment you had a direct hand in?

4. Favorite moment you didn't?

1) I think the more profound curveball was that people chose to play this game quite a bit differently than I originally thought they would. There was less gaming of the court system (other than gift-giving, there was plenty of that) than I anticipated. I had visions of people trying to lobby for support for motions knowing that points were going to their Wind, and really using the heck out of all of their actions. Ryoichi might have done a little of that, but I think he was the only one until quite late in the game, when Sae had to make up her deficit. I also thought people would try to get access to the Influence points their delegations represented by cultivating NPCs. Kenji did cultivate Sanae (and himself), and Yuna did try to work on Mizohachi, who is the definition of neutral, but it did not go much more beyond that. None of that is meant to be disparaging, by the way, it's just different than I anticipated. And the metagame worked anyway, which is a sign of a functioning system.

2) Ningi is the obvious answer, here. I mentioned earlier that he was meant to be over with at the end of Telephone Line, but player interest saw him grow into a larger problem that needed a different resolution. I also got a little bit of whiplash when Eiji went to crying out for punishment for the Lion and then went "Psych! Not that kind of punishment!" The punishment debate in general was not something I was anticipating at all. I was with Sae: bad guys get killed in Rokugan. And I guess I assumed everyone else was, too!

3) I liked moments where I could show the tension between the discourse and experience of Bushido, and the pressures there are on honorable people. Minehime having to manage Kaguya waving a head around. Noriko trying to explain why she wasn't jumping at the throne. Keihime's scenes. Higashime ending court on principle. Tooru choosing to slip something past Keihime in order to secure the well-being of his Family in an uncertain future. Tsuruyo and Hajime striking a deal on an investigation and a revenge cycle in order to save the Empire in general and the Lion clan in particular (with the implication that they may have done this before). I had the chance to play a lot with things *not* said in this game, and I found that enjoyable. Almost as enjoyable as the divergent interpretations of these characters and events I got to read in pfs or in conversations elsewhere.

4) I loved Sayomi's passion for Aiko. I loved how GB brought Sadako and Mariko to life. I loved the deliberations and teamwork in the Crab pf. I loved that people were willing to write and run events for each other, some of which were truly lovely. I loved how the Lion had nearly given up on the resource game and then said "no, let's pull this together" and got it done. I loved how GB and Kiuchi made Great Destiny mean something.

Cearnach wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 9:23 pm

The punishment debate in general was not something I was anticipating at all. I was with Sae: bad guys get killed in Rokugan. And I guess I assumed everyone else was, too!

Can't speak for others, but Ryusei at least was kinda playing politics there

Doji Shinnosuke wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 8:52 pm

I had hoped to get Batsuda and Tsuruyo out more in general. But there are future games, and neither of them are done.

Akodo Kenji wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 9:03 pm

Thoughts/questions

Was the assassination attempt on D10 always going to be Tatsuya, or was it targeting the Wind with most influence at that point?

I have to admit, it was not clear to me that the game would end without a Wind chosen. I was expecting the game would close with a Wind selected and hence lots of unhappy samurai, leading to a highly factionalised and conflict rich environment as different groups tried to get rid of the chosen Wind. So it felt a bit odd to finish without some sort of resolution to the metagame (even if it was just: Wind x wins this round, supporters gain y, tune in next game where the Wind will start with some momentum/bonus).

It was always Tatsuya. He was the interloper, and we did always think that someone would need to try to kill him. What was interesting about that is that we did not decide who did it until after the event had been played through.

Shiba Higashime ending court on legal principle was actually the starting point of the whole campaign. She was the first character written and the end of game 1 the first concept, well before the Winds took shape.

The metagame has always been defined as the Campaign metagame: it's there for the long haul, not just this game, and will continue until resolution is found, unless something happens in the meantime. We could absolutely have played the game with a weak Empress or Emperor that no one really listens to and other contenders out there, but I was consciously avoiding that so that we would not just be playing Hollow Throne: 486. This is a different animal: more uncertain, more polarities, a weirder balance of power. And it also gives us breathing space to write local stories: with the center occupied by this debate and the Clan Daimyo chained by their oaths to the throne, we can go out to the periphery and see how society is responding to all this.

Finally, the accession of the Emperor is the natural end to the campaign. There are only a handful of canonical events in this period, but the most important one is that whoever does it has to abandon their identity and become Hantei X, as opposed to Hantei Noriko or Hantei Gorobei (or Hantei XI with someone else in between). Something that dramatic needs a darn good reason to happen, doesn't it? So let's go write some!

Daidoji Ryu wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 12, 2025 9:07 pm

Oh yeah, what about that paper Tooru stole when he found the Empress?

That is my gift to everyone: the freedom to speculate on what Hantei Retsuhime really wanted.